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Any ideas on what's up with Colin?

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Any ideas on what's up with Colin? Empty Any ideas on what's up with Colin?

Post by stephlisa on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 3:52 pm

Before I even start this post I'm just going to say that we will be going the vet about this, I'll be ringing up when they are next open, but wanted to get some thoughts off you guys...

Colin loves running on his wheel.  He can get to quite a speed and puts lots of energy into it.  But after frantic running for a few minutes or so, he suddenly stops and it seems like he's gasping for air.  It seems something akin to asthma in humans.  Well, I think its gasping for air.  I'll describe the action he's doing: it reminds me of when an animal (e.g. a dog) has peanut butter on the roof of their mouth and tries to get it off.  So they open their mouth wide.  Its accompanied but a sound that sounds like gasp (but again it might not be).  He hasn't had any change in diet, bedding or anything except his upgraded cage.  It happens for about 5 'gasps' and then he has a drink and some food and a wash and goes back to doing normal mousie things.

It only happens after he's been running on his wheel.

In all other aspects he seems perfectly happy and healthy.  He's making no noises other than his usual excitable chatter.  He's eating and drinking normally.  He's full of energy.  Obviously I'm aware that mice hide symptoms until it's really bad, so we'll be going to the vet, but I was wondering if anyone has had any experience of anything similar?

I tried to get a video of it, but I got there too late.  I'll post it if I manage to get one.

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Post by MesaMouse on Wed 22 Feb 2017, 9:16 pm

How is Colin doing, stephlisa? Were you able to see the vet yet?

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Post by scaredymouse on Wed 22 Feb 2017, 9:59 pm

aw, I just saw this post. hope he's okay. I don't have any useful experience with that particular symptom, so I wouldn't have been helpful yesterday anyway.

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Post by stephlisa on Thu 23 Feb 2017, 5:34 am

We have been to see the vet and she is unsure of what is going on too. She says he's completely fit and healthy otherwise. He's a good weight, nothing amiss. The odd thing is that we haven't noticed it since.

We've been instructed to keep an eye on it, to get a video if we can so she can see what's happening and to bring him as soon as we notice anything wrong. She hasn't given any medication because she is certain it isn't a URI.

She has discussed that it could be an allergy triggered by dust from his bedding so we've changed the bedding to be just shredded paper. But she isn't sure why that would only show up after he's been running on his wheel.

Sadly we didn't see the exotics vet, but the vet we did see has seen Colin before (and is extremely good at clipping his nails) and is going to have a chat with the exotics vet and let us know if they need to see him again.

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Post by scaredymouse on Thu 23 Feb 2017, 6:19 am

So, I'm just going to throw something out there that I've seen in people and since mice immune systems are so similar to ours, I thought I would mention it.

People can get something called exercise induced bronchospasm. It's not asthma, it's not allergies and it only happens with exercise and not necessarily every time. You can do an internet search and read about it if you want. Other than the discomfort during an episode, it's relatively harmless and it resolves on its own after a short while. Basically, the airways spasm with exertion causing discomfort... As opposed to asthma where they constrict causing difficulty breathing and episodes aren't limited to exercise. It's just what came to mind when you said the vet ruled out the usual stuff.

K. Bye!

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Post by CallaLily on Thu 23 Feb 2017, 7:05 am

I'm glad he seems to be doing well and I hope it was just a freak event.

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Post by stephlisa on Thu 23 Feb 2017, 10:29 am

@scaredymouse That's interesting. I'll go have a read. I'll see if the vets turn up anything. Other than that occurrence you wouldn't know anything was wrong with him. He's up to all his usual mischief (recently he's discovered he can push bits of bedding through the bars to get our attention...its very cute but a little annoying!!)
@CallaLilly I hope it was just a freak event too!

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Post by stephlisa on Tue 28 Feb 2017, 3:41 am

A quick update on Colin.  The gasping episodes have occurred a couple more times and we're heading to the vet this afternoon (I'll update you later).  I did however manage to get a short video of one the episodes.  I started recording as soon after it started as I could (I missed about two gasps) and stopped recording when he started going about his mousey business.  We'll be sharing this with the vet. It clearly isn't pleasant for him (whereas snuggling up my sleeve as I write this clearly is very pleasant!). I apologise for the not great phone video, but you can see what's happening.

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Post by CallaLily on Tue 28 Feb 2017, 7:30 am

Poor Colin! I hope you and your vet can get to the bottom of this and he feels better soon.

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Post by stephlisa on Tue 28 Feb 2017, 8:40 am

Poor little one. So this time on examining him, she had more luck finding things. His lungs were noisy, but no fluid build up elsewhere, so he's been prescribed a drop of baytril once a day. The two possible options based on today's examination are either a URI, or the beginnings of heart failure. We are being hopeful for a URI, particularly as she couldn't feel any fluid build up in his abdomen or find any other anomalies.

It is possible that it is the start of heart failure, but we noticed the early symptoms, hence nothing showed up when she examined him last time. This would also make him more susceptible to URIs. She's said its possible that he genuinely didn't have a URI this time last week.

As it could just be the beginning of heart problems, he's able to run around happily and normally generally, but if something is particularly exciting or stressful it could cause him to be out of breath and gaspy. Poor baby.

I successfully used the "burrito" method and he was given his first drop of medicine. The stress of being medicated did make him gasp, but I'm not surprised. We have a check up this time next week when the medication will hopefully have started to kick in if it is a URI. If not, she's reckons its leaning more towards heart problems and we can discuss options from there.

Fingers crossed its just a URI and a week of Baytril does the trick.

Poor baby. Hopefully we can get him feeling better soon. Lots of snuggles for our little one.

Out of curiosity to know what I might have to deal with, does anyone have any information or links to information for heart failure in mice?

(And a funny moment, a baytril warning: "...and if he lays any eggs, don't eat them." (For anyone who doesn't know, baytril can be given to chickens but you shouldn't eat the eggs when they're on medication).)

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Post by River on Tue 28 Feb 2017, 5:44 pm

The rat and mouse club of America has a link on congestive heart failure in rats, but I didn't have any luck on finding anything about mice. However rats and mice have very similar anatomy and thus, similar symptoms and cures. Hopefully this link is helpful, but I can't confirm much. I only briefly skimmed the article. http://www.rmca.org/Articles/chf.htm

I hope it's just a URI and Colin's feeling better. Did you consider taking out the wheel for the time being just to see if it'll help? Though I do imagine it might bore a mouse after a while, it might be something worth considering. I've also heard good things about running a humidifier for mice, if you have one on hand.

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Post by scaredymouse on Wed 01 Mar 2017, 1:42 am

Poor little man. I hope the Baytril helps.

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Post by MooMouse on Sat 04 Mar 2017, 9:07 am

I'm so sorry to hear that he's not doing well. I really hope that he gets better with the medicine.

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Post by stephlisa on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 7:58 am

A week of Baytril certainly seems to be doing the trick. He had a spurt of energy at the end of last week and just hasn't let up. Definitely feeling better!

He's had 3 gaspy episodes since we started on the medicine (an improvement on the previous week!). The vet has decided that we will keep on the Baytril till either he's had 7 days clear of gasping OR 4 weeks since he started on the Baytril is up. She's hopeful that this won't be a stubborn URI that stays around.

Obviously, if he gets worse we're to take him in as soon as we can! But good news for the little man. Smile

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Post by scaredymouse on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 8:33 am

I'm glad he's feeling better.  He had a really strange presentation of a URI.  That gasping looked awful.

Side note, one of my little mouse babies looks so much like your Colin! Check him out ❤ He's a sweet little RY with white blaze on his face and a little white on his tummy.

Any ideas on what's up with Colin? Wp_20164

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