Eye popping out of head

by sweetlings Wed 01 Mar 2017, 4:20 am

I'm currently medicating my mouse Margot with baytril for a URI. For the past 3 days I have been holding her as demonstrated in the "glove method" video linked on the forum, and feeding the baytril with a syringe. Just today I tried again, same as always, and she struggled so hard to get away that her left eye just about popped out of her head. It was really really bulging, and only on one side. I truely was not squeezing her very hard at all, and she was trying to force her way through a gap in my fingers.

Obviously I'm completely horrified and have had a good cry about it - I'm terrified I've really hurt her. I've never seen her eye do that, all the times I've given the baytril this way. Her eye looks fine now, no longer bulging and no squinting or scratching.

Has this happened to anyone else? I'm thinking I'll just start having her groom the baytril off her fur rather than risk it again, but I really just want to know what to do about her eye. Will she be alright?

by scaredymouse Wed 01 Mar 2017, 10:21 am

Oh my. That sounds awful. I have not had that
experience before. But I can tell you that their eyes can bulge, further than you think they should, when they can't breathe. If the eye is back to normal now, that is most likely what happened. And sure, it she was squeezing one shut, it could only happen to one eye. Now is it possible the eye got damaged? Sure. But like I said, if it looks okay, don't go crazy worrying about it. No pun intended, but keep an eye on it. Look for any drooping, squinting, drainage or scratching. I suppose its possible that her vision could be affected, but in a mouse, she would hardly notice.

I'm sorry that happened to you Sad

by sweetlings Wed 01 Mar 2017, 3:58 pm

Having a bit of explanation for it makes me feel a lot better, thank you Scaredy. It just really scared me.

She was the first awake this morning and is eating, running and coming over for a treat, so I have to assume she's feeling okay about the whole situation. No weeping or squinting or anything nasty. I'll be watching her closely for a bit though, definitely.

I really appreciate your comment, thanks again.

by peas Fri 03 Mar 2017, 1:09 am

Please please please just put her medicine in a cracker piece.

I think it's insanity that people are being counselled to scruff their mice or glove them or do anything that could harm them, when you can just put baytril in a cracker. You basically can't give them too much baytril unless you go crazy. Even doubling the dose is in all but very rare cases, harmless in the short term.

Also, mice licking medicine off of fur is non-sensical. Crackers/chips/popcorn/whatever, is not nearly as much of a risk to mice as URIs or in-experienced mouse handlers being told and in many cases shamed, into struggling with squirming mice in order to feel like they are doing things the right way.

by scaredymouse Fri 03 Mar 2017, 1:54 am

How exactly is putting medicine on fur nonsensical? That is an established way to get other types of noncompliant animals to take medicine. Baytril tastes awful, not all animals will eat food if they can taste it. This is one of the reasons we don't put medicine in water... If they taste the medicine, they won't drink the water.

by sweetlings Fri 03 Mar 2017, 4:36 pm

Thanks for the suggestion of crackers/treats, peas. I agree that giving her a little bit of popcorn or cracker with her medicine would be preferable to the URI, and (now that I've had the awful experience with her eye), probably preferable to scruffing or holding her. However, as soon as baytril touches any food whatsoever, my mice wont go near it. I have tried this with veggies, fruit, crackers, cereal, peanut butter and chips - no luck.

Its no good for me, but someone else might find the suggestion helpful!

Would you be able to elaborate on the fur method being nonsensical? Honestly its the only thing that's worked for me so far without the risk of her hurting herself trying to avoid the medicine. I know baytril can be bad for the skin, but I tend to think it's better than no medicine at all (as Scaredy has said in another thread).

Scaredy, it can get pretty hot where I live, so I havnt risked the water bottle mixture for that exact reason. I HAVE tried a mixture of baytril and diluted ribena (this was the vets first suggeston) and offered it in addition to the fresh water but it was ignored - Baytril must taste pretty nasty!

by FurMommy Sat 04 Mar 2017, 6:12 am

Just adding my 2 cents... I did not have much luck with administering medication on treats/food. This was even with a flavored medication that was supposed to help it go down a little easier. I can't recall off the top of my head what the medication was exactly, but it was an antibiotic that was cherry flavored. My little girl, Crunchie, started out ok with eating treats that had a few drops of the medication on it, but after a day or two, she wasn't having it. I tried switching up the treats each time so she would think she was just getting a new treat, but I guess she was able to smell the medication and stopped taking it voluntarily all together. I was not able to scruff her at the time because she had so many sores all over from excessive scratching. She ended up not taking the antibiotic when she was supposed to, which resulted in another 2 week course. It became a very lengthy and tedious process to get the antibiotics in her, twice a day, every day. I ultimately resorted to putting the medication on her fur because it was the only sure fire way to get her to take it. IMO... you administer medication in whatever way works best for the two of you, in whatever way that causes the least anxiety, and whatever way ensures that they get the proper dosage at the proper time.

by susb8383c Sat 10 Feb 2018, 11:08 am

Hi, I know this thread is last year, but since it is still searchable, I wanted to share some things that might be helpful.

Sweetlings, I had the same thing happen to me! I'm fostering a bunch of mice from that NYC art gallery thing (actually these were babies because the artist put all 59 mice together for 2 days before letting the rescue group pick them up. You can google the story).

A few have URIs.

I watched the scruffing video on YouTube but my girl was having none of that. So per vet advice, I tried to hold her in a small towel to administer it.

Sadly my girl did not survive. I held her and tried to make a small opening so that just her head could squeeze through and I could give her the dosage. it worked for the first thing I gave her, but for the second both eyes bulged out. I immediately let go but she died instantly Sad

After that, I would not try to force feed anything to the others.

The cherry-flavored stuff is Sulfatrim. That's what my vet initially prescribed but my rescue group had Baytril so that's what we used. Dr. L says Baytril has a bad taste and she's right. When we switched to Sulfatrim like she suggested the other four mice just gobble it up even without putting it on a treat. I use a paintbrush or toothpick. The only trick that might be helpful: I have two mice that are too busy trying to explore to eat it. But I found if they are grooming their face and I stick the end of the paintbrush near their mouths, they'll stop grooming and lick it off. I don't know why. If they won't start grooming, I get a little bit on their whiskers (smearing something on their heads doesn't do the trick) and then the grooming process starts.

So hope that's helpful to someone finding this thread and we can prevent other eye-bulging disasters.

by River Sat 10 Feb 2018, 3:47 pm

Huh. I never hold Graham very tightly, but then again, I can't scruff her because there's no scruff to scruff! I just flip her on her back, put my thumb on her belly and the rest of my hand keeps her from escaping. She wiggles a bit and frees herself at least once, but she eventually just accepts the medicine and gets back to cuddling. No tight holding or scruffing necessary!

I found putting more peanut butter around the end of the Baytril syringe makes the smell bearable so she'll accept it and I can get it in her. I have to put a smear around it to mask the scent, but it works great, and she doesn't get too much PB. This way you don't have to handle them roughly at all! My vet gave me this option but putting it on the paws was recommended, too. She's been good with it these past few days, and they're getting less stressful for her.

by susb8383c Sun 11 Feb 2018, 7:36 am

What does your vet think about Sulfatrim? Even a week later, my four just eat it. The cherry flavor must really be appealing.

by sweetlings Tue 13 Feb 2018, 12:37 am

Susb, even a year after this thread, I feel oddly relieved that I'm not the only one who had a hard time with the 'hold them down for medicine' advice. i'm so very very sorry to hear about your girl though - That would have been awful Sad

A year on, little Margot is doing absolutely fine (no eye issues to speak of) and putting the Baytril on her fur cleared up her URI perfectly. Was it the best solution possible? Probably not. Would I do it again in the same situation? In a heartbeat! I think in situations where lifesaving medicine is concerned 'whatever works' is an acceptable administration method (within reason, and safely, of course).

Also might be helpful to note that now that Margot is a bit bigger, I have had to give her anti-histamines for an allergy via syringe. the medicine clearly didn't taste as bad and i had a bit more mouse to hold onto and was able to syringe it into her mouth in one easy go. What a relief compared to the baytril!

by susb8383c Tue 13 Feb 2018, 6:03 pm

Thank you so much. Yes, it was terrible. I felt so bad. But now I'm the wiser for it. I'll always try to mix it with food first, and if they won't take it, resort to a more forceful approach.

I also have pet rats--mice are so much more fragile! Or maybe it's just these mice. I've had to really hold down my rats for different things. One of my girls had to have her teeth trimmed every 2 weeks. Before I got my husband to help me by holding her, I tried to do it myself. After about 10 minutes of trying to wrestle her, we were both exhausted. A mouse would never had taken that.

I'm so glad to hear Margot is doing well!

by CinnamonPearl Tue 13 Feb 2018, 8:10 pm

It should be noted that if you're holding down your mice and their eyes are bulging out or they are dying, you are definitely holding them way too hard. I have restrained mice in towels plenty of times with no issues, as have most of the people on this forum (I'm assuming). So it can be done. You don't have to squeeze their bodies. Wrap them in the towel and position your fingers in a way that will block off all points of escape via-wiggling. You don't actually have to hold them very tightly so long as you position your hand correctly. The main thing to remember is never, absolutely NEVER close your fingers around the neck. I know mice can be difficult to pin down and medicate, but people get too nervous about it, and it makes the process immensely harder. Just be confident and hold them with an appropriate amount of force, and there should be no issues.

by River Tue 13 Feb 2018, 10:54 pm

I'm glad to hear meds on the fur works, though. Today was the last dose of medication (but we can give it till it runs out), and she is so done with it we could only get it on her paws and cheek. The vet said the paws were okay as a last resort so I know it's fine but hearing it from others expedience is nice!

by sweetlings Wed 14 Feb 2018, 4:41 pm

I agree, Cinnamon, that the eye bulging was probably a result of me not knowing how much pressure/what hand position was required. Maybe i just got more confident for this second round of medicine a year later? Who knows.

I think what i'm trying to say, is that "Everyone else does it, just do it properly, stop being nervous" probably wouldn't have helped me, personally, after I was so freaked out from messing it up the first time. Hurting your mouse when you're trying so hard to do right by them is horrifying, and I feel terrible for anyone who has persisted with more heartbreaking results just because they had no advice on alternative methods.

If you don't feel you can safely hold your mouse down for medicine, I think the fur method is perfectly acceptable even for a couple of days while you get your confidence back, no?

Susb, interesting that you say 'maybe just THESE mice' because I never had any problems whatsoever medicating Margot's much larger sisters. Margot is a very delicate and tiny peanut of a mouse (hehehe) which I think is why I messed up with her specifically :/

River, glad to hear Margot's experience was helpful. I just had to be careful to keep her separated so her grooming helpers didn't come and get a mouthful of medicine Rolling Eyes

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