Re: Everything's Going Wrong

by CallaLily Thu 19 May 2016, 6:44 am

peas wrote:
Worms basically come from meat and poo.

Maybe it falls into the "meat" category, but I know for a fact that fleas and lice can carry tapeworm. At least the kind cats get. It spreads to them when the clean themselves or chew at an itch and accidentally ingest the fleas or lice. I think I read something about other insects being hosts too...? I know that's not the only way they spread though.

by CinnamonPearl Thu 19 May 2016, 6:55 am

I do give them freeze-dried mealworms. Maybe they got it from those? It may have just been infected mites though, but we already treated with selamectin.

by Windmilla Thu 19 May 2016, 10:53 am

Oh dear

I don't know much about mouse health stuff so I can't help much, but I know how hard it is to see "everything going wrong". I had a mouse that never ate, another with respiratory problems, then another one with a tumour in such a small window of time. It sucks.
But you can't beat yourself down. I just wish you the best of luck with your little ones and I hope you know how much they love you and be proud of that. <3

by MouseLover Thu 19 May 2016, 12:15 pm

I have heard that animals/people can carry tapeworms for a very long time with no symptoms at all, and that you only start to get symptoms when the infestation becomes bad. So there is always the possibility that they already had them when you bought them at the pet store (or wherever you got them). I doubt tapeworm/eggs would survive being freeze dried, so I doubt it was that.

Peas - I completely agree with the sentiment of what you are saying. The stress of sick mice, and their short life spans got too much for me a while ago, and I considered not having mice any more. I came to this conclusion - mice lives are short, whether I have them or not. So better that they come to me on their short time on earth, than to someone else who won't love them and care for them like I do. If they're not here for long, we're better off spoiling them and making the most of their short time, than spending that short time being sad.

It's not our fault that mice aren't made for longevity... the survival of their species relies on quick reproductive cycles, not long life spans. I heard that the average wild mouse only lives up to 6 months (often less), mostly due to predators. So the 18 months of a safe, secure, happy life that they get with you is amazing by comparison!

by CinnamonPearl Thu 19 May 2016, 12:24 pm

Thank you, everyone. You've all been very nice.

I do just want to say that my worries for my girls aren't out of selfishness or silliness or any attempt to "make it all about me." In fact, quite the opposite. I think it's important to question how we can do better and protect our little friends from illness and injury. If we always tell ourselves that it isn't our fault, then that could be dangerous if we actually did do something to accidentally facilitate the misfortune. I wasn't trying to make it about me when I started worrying or made this post. But I'm sorry if I came off that way.

But anyway, I feel better now that I know what we're dealing with. Mabel is still doing fine, acting normally and eating. Things are looking up. Smile

by Brynne Thu 19 May 2016, 1:12 pm

I never got the impression that you were making this post for sympathy for yourself. You clearly want to help your mousies! I hope that you and your mice soon go through a long cycle of calmness and hapiness.

Thanks for the info about tapeworms. I had no idea that mice could get them.

by MouseLover Thu 19 May 2016, 4:13 pm

I never thought you were making it about you CinnamonPearl. I think it's all about your mice. You clearly care for them a great deal Smile

I just didn't want you to feel guilty for things that were outside of your control. I've been there, and it's not nice.

by Mouseketeers Fri 20 May 2016, 5:49 am

I am so sorry to hear about all the trouble you have had / the stress you must have been under.

I spent years struggling with issue after issue with my horse. It was a never ending cycle of struggling and fighting. Don't be afraid to take a step back. We are of no use to our pets when we ourselves are sick and broken. You can only do so much and sometimes it is ok to think about what is best for you too Wink

Fingers crossed that everyone is out of the woods now.

by scaredymouse Fri 20 May 2016, 11:44 am

Here is a little information I found about tapeworms in rodents http://www.rmca.org/Articles/worms.htm

It looks like it could have come from contaminated water, infected insects, infected dogs or cats in the house, bedding, food, or it could have been tracked in on shoes. It's amazing that more people aren't sick with the amount of yucky stuff there is out there.

I'm sure the medication they gave you was metronidazole. it's an anti-protozoal medication and it should do the trick. I'm so sorry about this terrible ordeal your been going through! What a weird, unusual, gross, and tragic thing to happen to your girls. Did your vet discuss the possibility that it could have been transmitted to you? I know you are close with your girls like I am with mine. That means kisses all over their bodies. That means offering them food that i'm eating, which means they take their hands and grab it and take a bite... then I take a bite. I do that same thing with my cats. And my husband for that matter. However, those types of things make it a *possibility* because mice poop everywhere. I know it's yucky to even think about, but if I were in your shoes, I would see my doctor and ask for the medication to take as a precaution. Or at least ask the vet what she thinks.

An friend of mine at my work got pinworms from her kids. If you want to have nightmares, go read about pinworms. Anyway, a few days before she found out, we had a potluck at work and we all brought in homemade food. Well my imagination got the best of me. And I marched myself into the doctors office and after she was done laughing, she prescribed the medication. I told her I couldn't handle waiting for symptoms to emerge.

How are the girls doing?

by CinnamonPearl Fri 20 May 2016, 12:00 pm

Thank you, Scaredy! You know, I didn't even realize they may have given it to me. Shoot. I seriously don't have time to be dealing with a worm friend. Little Cow has a recheck this weekend, so I'll ask about it then. I don't feel any different or anything, but it's still a potential threat.

They gave me metronidazole for a protozoa they found from the necropsy, but for the tapeworm the vet prescribed praziquental. They actually just had their last dose of metronidazole this morning. I'm sure everyone will be pleased about that. Smile

The girls are doing fine. They've all been a little bit tired, but I can't tell if it's just their normal behavior (they sometimes get a little sleepy for a couple of weeks before getting energetic as usual again. I like to think of it as a vacation), or if it's the tapeworm affecting them. They really hate those meds, though. They all have their own little ways of trying to get out of it. Little Cow especially is tough to medicate. She always squeaks so sadly. Sad

Poor little thing was on three drugs at once. I feel bad about it, but I'd feel worse for letting the tapeworm have their way with them. Mabel is still fine, acting normally and such. I've been trying to keep their spirits up with lots of cheerios. There was a sweet moment, though, where last evening I was trying to hand Cow a cheerio and all she wanted was to come out and play. I couldn't because I had to go to bed, but I always appreciate Little Cow's enthusiasm for me. She still has her lump, and I don't think it's gotten any smaller, but I'm hopeful for everyone. I think it's gonna be okay.

by CinnamonPearl Thu 26 May 2016, 5:51 am

Since Little Cow had a recheck today, I thought I'd give an update on how it's going.

The antibiotics had no effect at all. In fact, her lump has even gotten a little bigger since last week. So I stopped giving them to her. At the vet, the doctor agreed to do some tests to figure out exactly what the lump is before diving into any surgery. She stuck a needle in, and it turns out the lump is full of blood. Does that mean anything to anyone? She listed a few things it could be but didn't confirm anything. She'll know for certain in three days, but I'm sure someone around here has an idea.

Poor Little Cow was so scared of that needle though. She got really lightheaded after it happened. Sad

But she was feeling much better by evening.

by MouseLover Thu 26 May 2016, 6:33 am

Does it feel fairly soft and moveable under the skin? If so it could be a fatty tumour (lipoma). These are benign and usually grow quite slowly. The only complications would be if it grew too big for her to move comfortably.
I know fatty tumours can have other tissue involvement, such as connective tissue and blood, which is why I thought of this.

by CinnamonPearl Thu 26 May 2016, 6:34 am

It's movable but firm, not soft. I certainly hope it is a fatty tumor though.

by scaredymouse Thu 26 May 2016, 2:27 pm

At least she'll be able to give you an answer in three days. I actually didn't know fatty tumors could have blood in them. But you said that it popped up overnight, which sounds less like a fatty tumor, and more like a cyst/abscess based on the fact that there is blood in it. However, it *is* possible for blood to be in a cancerous tumor. That's what my Lucy had. At her biopsy they found cancer mixed in with the blood they got from her tumor. But her tumor was very slow growing. So, guessing will probably just make you crazy. There are a lot of things it could be from nothing, to cancer.... and a lot of stuff in between.

How is everyone else doing?

by CinnamonPearl Thu 26 May 2016, 2:45 pm

Here's to hoping. I don't know what it is, so I'm trying not to guess. I'm just glad there's such a plethora of possibilities as to what it is, because it lessens the chance of it being cancer.

Rosie and Egg are both doing great. A bit groggy from the meds, but otherwise perfectly healthy and happy. Egg's been a little aloof lately, but that's just her being herself. She's taking such good care of Mabel, I'm so impressed with my little round baby. Mabel's been very weak and tired lately, but I'm hoping that's the meds and not the tapeworm. We had a bit of a scare today. She was napping so deeply that I kept poking her and she wouldn't stir. I thought she may have passed until I lifted up the toilet paper tube she was in and she finally woke up.

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