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Need help finding a suitable food in Singapore! :0

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Need help finding a suitable food in Singapore! :0

Post by Hemiptera on Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:33 pm

Hello there!

As a general note, my buck is from an untracked line and may be inbred.

I need help finding a suitable food in Singapore. The biggest pet store chain here is http://petloverscentre.com/, and is widely available.

I went there yesterday and looked through every bird and hamster food I could find, but one problem that seems to keep arising is the high protein.

Eventually I found one that fit the bill almost perfectly, in terms of its fat and fiber content, and had a huge variety of ingredients. Then I realized it was a Kaytee food! I saw that Kaytee was known for giving low quality foods, and having Ethoxycin (yes, I know I spelled that wrong) in their food, but all the other foods I checked out had very vague ingredients lists ("Seeds, cereal"). Also, what's the deal with "ash" as a part of the GA?


This is the Kaytee food in question -
Kaytee Gourmet Parakeet - with 14.5% protein, past the recommended 12%-14%.

My other options, with some short notes:
1. Kaytee Forti-Diet Pro Health - Parakeet - I think the crude fat content is slightly too low, at 4%. Similarly to the previous Kaytee food, I like the variety of seeds available in the mix.
2. Vitakraft Menu Honey Food (Cockatiel) - Protein content is okay, 12%. Unsure about ingredients as the common allergen of peanut is in it. No mention of crude fat content in GA.
3. Vitakraft Menu Amazonian Parrots - This one feels more like a wildcard, but the GA seems to fit. Ingredients seem odd.

I have no hamster food options available, as all their protein contents are 16%-18%, which is way too high anyway.

I am willing to consider other options within this petstore, so feel free to click around to see what's available!

Thank you!
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Re: Need help finding a suitable food in Singapore! :0

Post by scaredymouse on Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:08 am

So I took a look at the foods you listed and a few others (excellent research by the way!)...

You're right, that Kaytee Parakeet one has great ingredients... but is a bit high on the protein at 14.5%

But I would recommend going with the Kaytee Forti-diet (or the Forti-diet Pro-health) Parakeet food with the protein at 14%, it's still a bit on the high side but that is more important than the crude fat. It's a good basic food that you could other healthy treats to, such as walnuts, pumpkin seeds, oats, mealworms, and fresh fruits/veggies.

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Re: Need help finding a suitable food in Singapore! :0

Post by Hemiptera on Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:05 am

@scaredymouse wrote:So I took a look at the foods you listed and a few others (excellent research by the way!)...

You're right, that Kaytee Parakeet one has great ingredients... but is a bit high on the protein at 14.5%

But I would recommend going with the Kaytee Forti-diet (or the Forti-diet Pro-health) Parakeet food with the protein at 14%, it's still a bit on the high side but that is more important than the crude fat.  It's a good basic food that you could other healthy treats to, such as walnuts, pumpkin seeds, oats, mealworms, and fresh fruits/veggies.

Thank you!! Very Happy I got really worried about screwing up with my little mouse this time (Had 2 mice a couple of years back and could barely find info about how to take care of them right and now realizing a lot of mistakes!) so I'm a little more particular Laughing

Also, thank you for the input! I was looking at the forti-diet next, but was still concerned about the whole controversy surrounding Kaytee food.

Should I find a way to increase the crude fat with a mix-in, or just leave it as opportunity to give more fatty foods? Confused
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Re: Need help finding a suitable food in Singapore! :0

Post by CallaLily on Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:13 am

3. Is too low in protein and I don't like how corn is the second ingredient.

2. Looks like it would have a lot of sunflower seeds and fat.

1. The GA looks good, but not a lot of variety. If you do go with it I would encourage you to look into other grains to add to up variety. Oats, buckwheat, quinoa, rye, etc. Maybe even walnuts to up the fat.  Sure the GA is important but imo variety is just as important. Plus you may be able to play around and get the GA where you want it.

The gourmet parakeet has better variety, but as already said it is slightly too high in protein. You could add other grains, play around with the amounts and calculations and see if you could bring the GA down a little.  For example; if you were to mix in 0.25 pound each of buckwheat and quinoa to the 2 pound bag of this parakeet food, the GA would be 13.5% protein, 5.4% fat, 9.8% fiber.

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Re: Need help finding a suitable food in Singapore! :0

Post by Hemiptera on Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:36 am

@CallaLily wrote: 1. The GA looks good, but not a lot of variety. If you do go with it I would encourage you to look into other grains to add to up variety. Oats, buckwheat, quinoa, rye, etc. Maybe even walnuts to up the fat. Sure the GA is important but imo variety is just as important. Plus you may be able to play around and get the GA where you want it.

I'd love to up the variety, but I'm worried it'll skew the GA and I would somehow raise the levels unhealthily; do you have any tips for preventing this?

@CallaLily wrote:The gourmet parakeet has better variety, but as already said it is slightly too high in protein. You could add other grains, play around with the amounts and calculations and see if you could bring the GA down a little.  For example; if you were to mix in 0.25 pound each of buckwheat and quinoa to the 2 pound bag of this parakeet food, the GA would be 13.5% protein, 5.4% fat, 9.8% fiber.

Just wondering, how do you calculate bringing down the GA of a pre-mixed diet? I've been meaning to do this for a while (including for my hamster's food), but was unsure :0


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Re: Need help finding a suitable food in Singapore! :0

Post by CallaLily on Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:15 am

This thread on a hamster forum really helped me wrap my head around the math (not my best area Laughing ) http://hamsterhideout.com/forum/topic/102287-hamster-nutrition-iii-calculating-the-guaranteed-analysis-of-a-mixed-diet/page-1

They also have a calculator that does the work for you if you prefer: GA Calculator -- just ignore the hamster recommendations when using it for mice.  For mice from untracked lines you're looking for 12-14% protein, 5-7% fat, and under 10% fiber. Keep the base mix (whichever commercial food you decide on) at least 50% of the overall mix and you should be good.

I hope this helps.

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Re: Need help finding a suitable food in Singapore! :0

Post by Hemiptera on Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:30 am

@CallaLily wrote:This thread on a hamster forum really helped me wrap my head around the math (not my best area Laughing ) http://hamsterhideout.com/forum/topic/102287-hamster-nutrition-iii-calculating-the-guaranteed-analysis-of-a-mixed-diet/page-1

They also have a calculator that does the work for you if you prefer: GA Calculator -- just ignore the hamster recommendations when using it for mice.  For mice from untracked lines you're looking for 12-14% protein, 5-7% fat, and under 10% fiber.  Keep the base mix (whichever commercial food you decide on) at least 50% of the overall mix and you should be good.

I hope this helps.

Hi! Thanks for reminding me about the GA calculator on HH - I havent been there in waaay too long Laughing

I tried calculating and changing percentages from the method listed of [grams of nutrient] / [grams of total serving size], with this result:


Is there something I'm doing wrong? I'm going to healthline and getting the nutrition facts per 100 grams of a certain food, then converting fat/protein/fiber in grams to a percentage for calculation, but the protein still seemingly remains quite high for a lot of foods. Should the grams input be of the total to be used in the mix, or the grams used to measure by the serving size?

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Re: Need help finding a suitable food in Singapore! :0

Post by CallaLily on Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:20 pm

Using quinoa as an example, I looked at the site you mentioned for nutrition information  (the first time I just went off of my notes from a specific package of quinoa I had).  It says 100 grams of quinoa has 4.4 grams of protein.  So 4.4 ÷ 100 = 0.044 - which would be 4.4% protein. I think you maybe accidentally dropped the decimal in 4.4 when you did the calculation?  Someone can correct my math if I'm wrong.

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Re: Need help finding a suitable food in Singapore! :0

Post by Hemiptera on Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:13 am

(on mobile, sorry!)
Would oatmeal/rolled oats serve as an alright way or lower protein in the gourmet food? As far as I know it's about 10% protein.

EDIT: Otherwise, should I opt for organic white quinoa? Or maybe rice?

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Re: Need help finding a suitable food in Singapore! :0

Post by CallaLily on Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:14 am

Oats are great. But double check the protein. I think it's higher. In my notes I have written 14% but it might vary some package to package.  Quinoa is good. I stick with brown or wild rice over white.  I have barley down as 12.5% protein, if you have access to that.

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Re: Need help finding a suitable food in Singapore! :0

Post by Hemiptera on Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:14 am

@CallaLily wrote:Oats are great. But double check the protein. I think it's higher. In my notes I have written 14% but it might vary some package to package.  Quinoa is good. I stick with brown or wild rice over white.  I have barley down as 12.5% protein, if you have access to that.

Hi! I ended up getting organic "sweet brown rice" - which is apparently a shortgrain variety of regular brown rice. The nutrition info is as follows, after conversion -
  • PROTEIN - 6.98%
  • FAT - 2.69%
  • FIBRE - 4.31%


Which brings my GA of the mix to -
  • PROTEIN - 13%
  • FAT - 5.34%
  • FIBRE - 8.86%


The problem now is the "percentage of diet". What I assumed would work is to take the total divided by the percentage. So for example, if the parakeet mix is 80%, with a 907 gram bag, I would do (907/80) to get 1%. Then, with this value (11.33g), I would multiply it by 20 (getting 226.75g of rice). Is this correct? Sorry, my math is horrible!

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Re: Need help finding a suitable food in Singapore! :0

Post by CallaLily on Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:47 pm

Yes, with a 907 gram bag of the parakeet mix and 226.75 grams of rice would be 80% parakeet food and 20% rice. Is that what you're asking? Sorry if I misunderstood.

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