I believe usagi is dying

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I believe usagi is dying

Post by Soren on Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:45 pm

5 days ago i brought wheezing Usagi to the vet. The vet said she has pneumonia. They prescribed her doxycycline and baytril twice a day for two weeks, but i don't think she make it to two weeks. two days into antibiotics she stopped eating and drinking by herself so my partner and I syringed fed her baby food and water, along with anti biotics. now on day 5, she's so skinny, and is gasping with her jaws visibly moving in a gasping motion. She doesn't move anymore.
I called the vet, and they said they can prescribe her pain meds as well, and do x-rays. But she has withered so much, that i worry the stress of the drive and x rays may be the last thing to tip her over they edge.

What would you do at this point?
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Re: I believe usagi is dying

Post by Brynne on Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:58 pm

I would euthanise. 

I agree with you that those symptoms sound like she is dying.

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Re: I believe usagi is dying

Post by MouseLover on Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:16 pm

Oh the poor thing Sad So sorry to hear this. It sounds like you've done everything you can for her, I'm not sure what more you can do.

To be honest, with those symptoms, I wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't last the night Sad

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Re: I believe usagi is dying

Post by scaredymouse on Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:14 pm

Those are very grave symptoms. If she lasts the night, the kindest thing to do would be to euthanize. I'm so sorry, I know it's hard to see them like wither away like this.

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Re: I believe usagi is dying

Post by Bandit Cat on Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:26 pm

I would try to make her as comfortable as you can. I personally don't believe in euthanizing, as you wouldn't kill a person if they're sick. It is up to you though, but I would try to make her very happy while she is still with you.

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Re: I believe usagi is dying

Post by CinnamonPearl on Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:39 am

Oh no, the poor little thing! I'm so sorry Soren. But unfortunately, I agree with everyone else. I think it's time to euthanize. Even if she does live another five days, she would have to spend her last five days on Earth like this. Of course, as her owner, it's your decision. We're here for you and her. *Hugs.*

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Re: I believe usagi is dying

Post by Soren on Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:25 pm

Miraculously, she survived the night, but she does not look good. She's so frail and withered. I've only had her for 3 months, and it seems to short. I keep remembering her in her prime, and wishing I would check on her and she would be back to normal, but no. Skinny, gasping, and greasy, and if her eyes bulge anymore, i think her eyeballs will fall out.
My roommates and Partner think i'm insane for being for being so upset because of how insignificant mice are to them. So thank you for the support, i'm glad i get it from somewhere Smile

She doesn't seem to be having a good time at life. I don't want to, but seeing her like that is heartbreaking. She's suffering... so I'm going to call the vet to see what the process is, and how much it costs. Depending on how i feel about the procedure, and how Usagi may feel about it. Crying or Very sad I'll update when i know.

Have any of you euthanized a mouse?
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Re: I believe usagi is dying

Post by Peachy on Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:31 pm

I've had one mouse euthanized, she was the only girl to make it past two years, but I wasn't with her during it. Not because I didn't want to be, but the vet took her back and then returned her so I could bury her. I hope someone else will have helpful information, I mostly just wanted to wish you and Usagi the best. I'm sorry you two have to go through all this. Sad
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Re: I believe usagi is dying

Post by MouseLover on Sat Jun 04, 2016 2:56 am

I have had mice euthanized for large tumours Sad They usually do it by injection. Some vets gas them before the injection so that they won't feel any pain, some don't. But you can ask about their methods and insist on them gassing first if you like. Either way, it is very quick and it's kinder than having a drawn out, suffering death.

Poor Usagi Sad I hope she's not suffering much longer, whatever you decide to do.

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Re: I believe usagi is dying

Post by Brynne on Sat Jun 04, 2016 4:09 am

I had a mouse whose eyes bulged out so far that one of her lenses popped off!!!!!!  I was so horrified that I immediately euthanised her at home with carbon dioxide.
(Made from baking soda and vinegar- research it on the internet if you want to learn how.)

Lesson learned.  I will never again let a mouse live with bulging eyes that don't get better after a few days.

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Re: I believe usagi is dying

Post by scaredymouse on Sat Jun 04, 2016 6:41 am

I have had cats euthanized at the vet, they inject medication into the veins... and the animal simply goes to sleep.  Very peaceful for the animal.  Very difficult for the human.

Euthanasia is a hard thing for some people to do.  I think it is the kindest, most humane thing you can do for an animal.  One may wonder if it's so humane, why don't we do it for people?  And the answer is, we do.  It's called physician assisted death.  Terminally ill people have been fighting for the right to die for quite a while and it is now legal in three states.  With people, they get to make their own decision about if and when they want to die.  With animals, we make that choice for them.  I think that is the difficult part.  The symptoms you describe... imagine how you would feel with those symptoms... then imagine if were your pet how you would feel if you couldn't play or run around and felt so sick.  If you were at the end of your life and in pain, wouldn't you rather just go to sleep and have it be over or would you like to suffer for the unforseeable future?  I know I would rather just go to sleep.  Euthanasia is the best option if you know that your pet wont recover.  That is why most people go to the vet.  The vet won't euthanize an animal unless they agree that it is appropriate.  So the burden of the decision doesn't lie solely on you.

Personally, I euthanize at home.  It's very difficult to do but I never regret my decision.  It's difficult because I love them so much and selfishly, I want more time.  But it's not about me.  It's about what is best for my pet.  The process is not much different from the vet.  With small animals they usually use gas to put them to sleep because they can't get medication into a vein like they can with bigger animals.  But the gas works the same.  The animal simply lays down and stops breathing.  There is no pain, no fear.  

Doing it at home is not for the faint of heart.  But the process is the same and the result is the same.  And I like being able to spare my mice/hamsters the anxiety of a vet visit.

I hope that answers the questions you are struggling with.
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Re: I believe usagi is dying

Post by MouseLover on Sat Jun 04, 2016 8:19 pm

scaredymouse do you use the same carbon dioxide method Brynne mentioned?
I can totally understand why people would choose to euthanize at home, it must be less stressful for the mouse. But I would worry that if someone did this without knowing exactly what they were doing, they could cause more suffering for the mouse. Which is why I take mine to the vet, I wouldn't want to do it wrong.

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Re: I believe usagi is dying

Post by CinnamonPearl on Sat Jun 04, 2016 8:26 pm

You could also try asking the vet to come and euthanize your pet at home for you. That's what we did with my dog. It'd take a really nice vet and some negotiation, but I'm sure most vets are understanding enough to do it for you. I would never want to euthanize one of my girls in a vet office. What kind of final day would it be if they had to spend it stressed and anxious from travel and being in the vet office? I'd rather they spend their last few hours at home, surrounded by their friends and toys.

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Re: I believe usagi is dying

Post by scaredymouse on Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:17 pm

I use carbon dioxide but I have a fancy set up, because like you, I was afraid of doing something wrong and was nearly paralyzed by it. But I was also terrified that my very sick mouse, who wasn't quite ready yet, would need immediate help in the middle of the night and I wouldn't be able to help her. She was very, very special to me. I can't speak to the method Brynne used but I know it works the same by producing CO2, the same gas I use. The only difference is that she mixes together two ingredients to produce CO2 whereas I use a CO2 tank.

I opted to the more expensive route because it seemed more precise to me, it was still cheaper than a vet visit and it made me feel better. I use a CO2 tank, that attaches to a hose, that goes into the container the animal is in. You can adjust the flow of gas. I was able to find more concrete information on this method on the internet.

FYI about veterinary house calls. Even my exotics vet cannot do housecalls for small animals because they can't transport their gas system to the home. They can certainly do it for larger animals because it is an injection they can bring with them.

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Re: I believe usagi is dying

Post by Brynne on Sat Jun 04, 2016 11:54 pm

From my experience:

If a mouse is very, very ill and close to death anyway, carbon dioxide will kill them almost instantly.  

If a mouse is still acting healthy, but has something awful (like a giant, fast-growing tumour that has disabled a limb and broken through the skin) then a professional euthanasia would be safer.

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