Question about the minimum

Go down

Question about the minimum

Post by aBeagleandaGirl on Tue 9 Jan 2018 - 18:09

Hi all. I've been reading around this forum for some time now, as I have been considering a new pet. I'm curious as to why the minimum is 10 gallons? That's only 200 sq inches- barely larger than a hamster Crittertrail. (I own one dwarf hamster currently and have educated myself on proper hamster care. She is housed in an 800 sq inch enclosure.)

aBeagleandaGirl
New Member
New Member

Join date : 2018-01-07
Posts : 1
Likes : 1


View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Question about the minimum

Post by chiroptera on Tue 9 Jan 2018 - 18:40

From the proper housing thread:


This is a **minimum** amount of space for your mice, and we strongly recommend providing your mice with as much space as you can. This is especially important if your mice are larger or more active than average. Please note that a 10 gallon tank (and its equivalents in floor space) is recommended by the cage calculator as the smallest cage that you should use to house any mouse...

A 10 gallon is in line with the minimums presented by many other sources, however many pet keepers prefer to exceed this minimum for permanent, long-term housing. Good examples of short-term uses include: quarantine, hospital tank, nursing mothers, taming, timeouts, small introductions, etc.

So, it really is a minimum standard- the average mouse can live comfortably in that amount of space, but more space is encouraged.

Also, remember that mice aren't hamsters- so they simply don't need the same amount of space as hamsters do, depending on the individual animals in question.

Some individuals may get nervous in larger spaces or prefer to stay in one 'territory'; others will thrive in large places and explore every inch of a huge cage.

It's possible that soon the minimum accepted size will change soon; animal care is always changing as we learn more. But as of now, the evidence supports that a 10 gallon is a safe home for a mouse (or pair/trio of girls), and that nothing smaller than 10g is suitable.

Hopefully this is somewhat helpful of an explanation; it's the minimum because it is currently accepted that anything smaller is unsuitable for mice to live in.

(also, apologies if my tone is coming across as aggressive- not my intention at all! just wanted to be clear with my explanation)

_________________
Bat tabby | she/her | 22 | tx, usa Bat
~Mouse Dossier~
my mouse gallery


Cool mouse mom to: Checkers, Clue, Mahjong, Dragon, Peebee, Pumpkin, Hazelnut, Thyme, Caramel, + Olive
Love remembering: Trouble, Yahtzee, Jay, Sid, + Zola
avatar
chiroptera
Sr Member
Sr Member

Join date : 2017-11-23
Posts : 232
Likes : 62

Sagittarius Batty

View user profile https://gruntsmom.tumblr.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Question about the minimum

Post by CinnamonPearl on Tue 9 Jan 2018 - 18:43

A mouse can live comfortably and very happily in a 10 gallon tank, that's why it's the minimum. A 10gal tank is space enough to fit a food bowl, a water bottle, a wheel, and plenty of toys, mice living in that amount of space can be very happy so long as they are properly taken care of, and it is space enough that a big cleaning does not need to be done more than once a week. I have also heard that a 10gal tank is about the size of a mouse burrow for three girls or one boy in the wild, but I would have to look back and fact check myself on that. Regardless, the minimum amount of mice can live plenty happily in a 10gal tank. Mice and hamsters are two very different species, so it's best not to compare them at all.

_________________
avatar
CinnamonPearl
Hero Member
Hero Member

Join date : 2016-04-06
Posts : 1725
Likes : 256

Pisces

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Question about the minimum

Post by Asherjon23 on Wed 10 Jan 2018 - 19:16

Tanks are the usual way to go. Just make sure they get some good ventilation.

Asherjon23
New Member
New Member

Join date : 2018-01-02
Posts : 14
Likes : 7

Aquarius

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Question about the minimum

Post by scaredymouse on Thu 11 Jan 2018 - 15:08

Mouse tank minimums are quite different from hamster space requirements. It has to do with their activity level, comfort, happiness. Studies have been done that show that mice prefer a snug, cozy home and tend to feel more scared/exposed when then have too much space. You will end up with a wild, nervous mouse if they have too much space.

That is not to say that they can't be happy in a larger space, but you really should start small and work on taming them before increasing their tank size.

I know it seems small... but 10g is good for mice. I also have hamsters and they are in 40g tanks, so I can understand your disbelief!

_________________
Lady mice: Maggie, Claire, and Penny (aka Sweet P)
Gentleman mice: Alexander
Other pets: Little Buddy, Kevin (cats) Sherberta, Dustin, Lidiya, Chip, Squiggy, Nina, Harold, Spike, Mia, Mim, Henrietta(hamsters), Chloe and Zoey (chinchillas), Herman/Figaro Whooopers/Burlington (guinea pigs)
Rainbow Angel  Penny, Honeybun, Lucy, Annie, Gilly, Furgie, Tedward Wigglesworth, Olivia, Goose, Sweet Katie, Binky, Delilah, Bitsy, Boopers, Sprout, Splotchy, Eva, Slappy, Shuggie, Fancy Pants, Jellybean, Charlie, Murray, Sally, Maya, Gunther, Lil Smokey, Magnus, Norman, Winnie, Sally, George, Harriet, Spec, Erzulie, Lucille, Agatha and Clementine.
avatar
scaredymouse
Moderator
Moderator

Join date : 2016-04-03
Posts : 2457
Likes : 743

Virgo Sluggish
Best Cage -- December 2016

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Question about the minimum

Post by deleted on Fri 12 Jan 2018 - 3:26

Just throwing my opinion in here.
I believe that the reason for the minimum is from lack of research done in the keeping of mice as pets. I have yet to find any scientific paper that shows evidence of mice being more comfortable in small cages (and neither for bigger cages)

The standard for hamsters comes from a brilliant Swiss research [can be read here], which suggests the space needed for a hamster to minimalize stereotypical behavior, is 1500 sq. (and understandable that is the goal, but not all have that kind of space for a cage)

Just to compare the standard for mice, most English resources you find on the internet says that a 10g tank (24 x 9 inches) is a minimum.
If you look up on Danish ones, they say a cage has to be 80x40cm (around 31x16 inches I believe) [Dyrenes Beskyttelse]

The Germans go for both size to run, but also climb, they put a minimum on 80x50x80cm (around 31x19x31 inches) but push towards even bigger. [Merkblatt Nr. 158 - Heimtiere: Mäuse (Stand: Okt. 2013)]
You can take a scroll through this thread if you want to see some of the amazing cages they got.

"For example, some of the smallest cages, such as the 180 cm2 accepted for mice in the 1986 European Convention (Council of Europe 1986), may be too limited, as it has been shown that, when space up to 1600 cm2 is provided for mice, they make good use of it (Sherwin and Nicol 1997). Moreover, it will be difficult to provide enrichment in such small cages. However, it seems to be more the degree of structuring of the environment rather than space which is important for the preferences and absence of behavioural disorders in mice (Baumans et al. 1987, Würbel et al. 1996) (...)
Furthermore, mice partition their space into sleeping, defaecating, urinating and feeding areas, so the available space and structure in the cage should be sufficient. Incentives for activity should be provided in the cage, such as nesting material and climbing possibilities" [The Welfare of Laboratory Animals]

So I think it's about you giving your pet what you feel is correct for them Smile


Last edited by Nova on Tue 16 Jan 2018 - 4:58; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : Added more info, and another source)

deleted
Jr Member
Jr Member

Join date : 2018-01-10
Posts : 20
Likes : 14

No Mood

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Question about the minimum

Post by CinnamonPearl on Fri 12 Jan 2018 - 9:29

Sure yes, theres no scientific paper, but does anecdotal evidence count for nothing?

_________________
avatar
CinnamonPearl
Hero Member
Hero Member

Join date : 2016-04-06
Posts : 1725
Likes : 256

Pisces

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Question about the minimum

Post by deleted on Fri 12 Jan 2018 - 10:06

@CinnamonPearl wrote:Sure yes, theres no scientific paper, but does anecdotal evidence count for nothing?

Oh yes of course it does! Experience is knowledge, but it doesn't mean that someone who has done something for a long time is always correct (not attacking anyone here)

I'm just putting out there that people who have bigger cages also tell stories of happy thriving mice, just as much as people with smaller cages do. Which is why it's up to each individual person to see what works the best for them Very Happy

deleted
Jr Member
Jr Member

Join date : 2018-01-10
Posts : 20
Likes : 14

No Mood

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Question about the minimum

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum