Re: Minimum vs. Standard

by deleted Wed 14 Feb 2018, 7:43 am

@CallaLily I'm not saying it's right or wrong either, and it's clearly understood what is meant with OCD. Very Happy

What I'm trying to say is that it can be misleading when used, since it indicates that the mouse just has a 'problem', rather than a behavior that might indicate something that can be fixed, or done better.

Stereotypical behaviors are one of the parameters to look for when looking at how animals are thriving.

@AnonymousMouseOwner and that's correct! It means it's showing an abnormal behavior so often and repeatedly that is has become normal, become a stereotype. I'm not the one who came up with it, but that is what it's called. [wiki on it here]

And I get that you can't do better than what you already are doing, and I'm happy that you are trying your best. Smile

but the symptoms still shows that he has developed an abnormal habit, and that should not be shrugged off as something normal.

by Mahjling Wed 14 Feb 2018, 7:44 am

What is his food like? Are you using Carefresh or a different brand of paper bedding?
It's possible he could have some mild allergies. And as of late I've been hearing some bad things about Carefresh's current batches in regards to that. Is there any way you could switch his bedding and any potential irritants from his food?

As for cage size, I feel I've had the opposite of everyone's experience here! Whenever I've kept mice in small cages, I've always had a hard time taming them--I guess it was technically easier to grab them if I really needed to grab them, but they never became fond of seeing my hand. Whereas when I switched to more space, it became much easier to teach them to 'Come' and 'Step up' onto my hand. One of my current mice, Dr.Pepper, was so nervous when I first acquired her that even seeing one of her tankmates move near her made her lose her mind. Now, she's one of the first to come running over when I call the ladies {I use a kissing sound to call them to 'come here' instead of the pen-clicker I use during training so that they don't get confused, good to differentiate}

by AnonymousMouseOwner Wed 14 Feb 2018, 2:44 pm

Mahjling wrote:What is his food like? Are you using Carefresh or a different brand of paper bedding?
It's possible he could have some mild allergies. And as of late I've been hearing some bad things about Carefresh's current batches in regards to that. Is there any way you could switch his bedding and any potential irritants from his food?

As for cage size, I feel I've had the opposite of everyone's experience here! Whenever I've kept mice in small cages, I've always had a hard time taming them--I guess it was technically easier to grab them if I really needed to grab them, but they never became fond of seeing my hand. Whereas when I switched to more space, it became much easier to teach them to 'Come' and 'Step up' onto my hand. One of my current mice, Dr.Pepper, was so nervous when I first acquired her that even seeing one of her tankmates move near her made her lose her mind. Now, she's one of the first to come running over when I call the ladies {I use a kissing sound to call them to 'come here' instead of the pen-clicker I use during training so that they don't get confused, good to differentiate}

I mainly use Carefresh but for the past couple weeks I've given him Kaytee instead, since he seems to like how fluffy it is and has fun digging in it Smile

I use the Vita Prima parakeet seed at the moment - No peanuts, no striped sunflower seeds, none of the common allergens.

Edit: Also, wanted to add that I'm pretty certain he's probably just missing companionship though, and he does scratch a lot, so I think the fur loss is caused by scratching and not allergies. Thanks for the thought, though! I do the best I can, but "chronic scratching" is just not something that is easy to control. I don't like getting into arguments, so I don't want to be included in this thread anymore, please carry on and don't feel the need to reply to me. Smile

by stephlisa Wed 14 Feb 2018, 4:02 pm

Nova wrote:I agree with you. Many say that their mouse becomes less tame when in a bigger cage, but that's just because it now has all the space to fulfill its natural behavior and therefore don't need the human to "let them out"
It hurts to hear, but if a mouse has everything it needs (space, enrichment, and companionship) it has no need for human interaction. Some still becomes tame, but that is up to the personality of the mouse

I disagree with this statement. I think its important for pets to have human intereaction and be tamed. That's why we keep them as pets. This is especially important for male mice living alone. My boy has all the space to fulfill his natural behaviours (which he readily and happily does), but even when he had Pumpkin living with him he would literally beg to come out and play. He loved the companionship we gave him (and the chance for extra exploration). My previous boy, Colin, was the same. He would also beg to come out and play with a human. I've yet to experience a mouse who doesn't like human interaction.

by Rodents rock! Wed 14 Feb 2018, 8:10 pm

Anonymous, I believe your set up is really great Very Happy

A vast amount of things fall under the OCD term. Mainly it's something a person or a pet does repeatedly without total control over it. There are a lot of ailments both people and pets get, cancer, diabetes, depression... so I don't see anything wrong with using the OCD terminology for pets.

I also don't like to argue. I've given my thoughts and won't be replying on this particular thread anymore.

by deleted Thu 15 Feb 2018, 3:08 am

@stephlisa You might have had some mice who love you, and that's good! I won't discuss with you about your way of taming them, and your success
My point is just that people shouldn't skimp on the space they have, just because they want something to cuddle. It's an animal and it also has it's boundaries. We are not keeping animals because they want too, we are keeping animals because we, us humans, wants too.
And to avoid confusion, I'm not saying that pet keeping is bad.

But that's beside my original point with my first comment.
If this forum has no goal, for what it wants to do, what imprint it want to leave on its visitors... then why does it exist?
A pet forum, for pet owners, should exist to push better husbandry, to make better standards. To be in the interest of making a change in the way we see and keep pets. Why only go for the bare minimum? Why not try to teach people that "hey, pets are a luxury, not a necessity. It's thriving over surviving. Why not try to give the best you can?"

AND I KNOW it damn hurts to get to realize that "maybe my care is not the best", but then you can learn and change! You can get better, you can improve! It's why we are having this discussion, it's to get better.

I can be wrong but it think it was the same thing the OP was trying to get at, that the minimum should maybe be upped Smile

by CallaLily Thu 15 Feb 2018, 7:32 am

I agree that we should always be learning how to better our pets’ care. But I just wanted to answer the “why is this forum here” question. Truthfully, the main reason for this forum was a place for the remaining TFM members to keep in contact and chat about our adorable meece. Also to move over the info that was collected by TFM so it wouldn’t be lost. The mods here have been slowly updating the old out-of-date info, so we are moving forward. Maybe not as quickly as some would like but as a member who came here straight from TFM, there has been tons of change. I’m sure things are going to continue to improve. Conversations like this one help nudge us all along. And it’s awesome that we have so many new members here to chat with us. Smile

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