I need some help...

by AnonymousMouseOwner Sun 04 Mar 2018, 12:10 am

Well, usually my intros either go really smoothly or just have minor problems that resolve themselves quickly. But this time I'm not sure what to do next and need some help. So to be clear, here is who I was introducing:

Sugar - The tiny, young newbie mouse being introduced to the older group.

Blossom - An older, average sized mouse that has always been difficult at introductions. She has a long history of being grumpy with new mice.

Autumn - A middle-aged, large show mouse that usually has no issues at all with intros and gladly accepts new mice.

Amber - A young, smaller mouse that hasn't had any issues with intros and always accepts new mice.

So, I introduced everyone in neutral territory. All went excellent. Everyone basically ignored each other. No chasing, biting, or even squeaking. So I felt confident moving them to the 40 gallon breeder. I set it up very basic, everything that could be washed was lightly washed with a cleaning solution from the pet store. I put everyone in, and Blossom started having her issues. The first thing she did was bite Sugar on the back, but I saw no blood, so I let them be. A couple more squabbles took place between her and Blossom. Then Sugar was absolutely terrified of anyone who came near her. Anytime any mouse would touch her (Even Autumn and Amber, who were innocent and had no intentions of harming her), she would scream as loud as she could and cower down. Then I scooped her up, and she was screaming at me for touching her. It took her a second, but she realized it was just me, and she stopped and calmed down. I looked her over for bites really well to make sure there was no blood, because I know the rule, "No blood, no problem". When I lifted her tail, I saw a big ol' bite on her bum! Blossom bit her right under her tail! I put her on a paper towel and didn't see any blood, but it looked like a pretty bad bite so I decided to put her back in her cage alone for the night so her owwie could heal.

So I have a few questions:

* Will a bite in this place heal okay? Any precautions I should take?

* When should I try to introduce her again?

* How should I go about introducing her again?

* I might get another mouse from a breeder around my birthday later this month, should I wait until then and introduce her, the new mouse from the breeder, and the group all at once?

I have some footage from the introduction too, will be uploading that later. Thanks!

Edit: Here's the footage:

by CinnamonPearl Sun 04 Mar 2018, 5:15 am

Start by introducing in a smaller tank next time. 40 gallons is huge for four mice, and when they dont know each other, its very possible for them to pick out their own territories in the tank and defend then against the strangers. 20 gallon high would be perfect, but if you dont have one, a 20gal L would be good, or 10gal for safety. Force them to share the space.

Scaredy also recently gave me the tip of, if you see the bully attack someone, grab them immediately and separate them out to live alone for a week. See how much she wants to be a brat after she gets a taste of what happens when she doesnt share. It should help her want to get along.

by scaredymouse Sun 04 Mar 2018, 3:38 pm

Check out the advice i gave cinnamonpearl:

https://www.petmousefanciers.com/t2740-sigh-why-do-they-always-do-this-to-her

by AnonymousMouseOwner Sun 04 Mar 2018, 7:34 pm

Thank you both. Blossom is such an old lady and hasn't experienced being alone for a long time though, it won't make her depressed to be alone that long, will it? But yeah, I feel like that would work, because the other girls don't bother Sugar at all!

by CinnamonPearl Sun 04 Mar 2018, 8:30 pm

One week alone shouldn't be life threatening. But I believe the point of the method is you want her to feel the pain of being alone. Once she's experienced it, she'll most likely be a lot more open minded to her new tankmate.

by AnonymousMouseOwner Sun 04 Mar 2018, 9:51 pm

Thank you!

I tried again tonight. Again, all went well in neutral territory, then I moved them to a 20 gallon high, and Blossom was being a bully again. As soon as she bit Sugar, I picked her up, and put her in Sugar's tank. I left everything just as Sugar had it. So she has to eat Sugar's food, sleep in Sugar's nest, and run on Sugar's wheel. Then I moved the remaining girls to the 40 gallon breeder, since I trust them to be nice to her. There was no fighting among those girls. A couple squeaks and chases, but other than that all went well. So when I introduce Blossom back, should I just plop her in their tank, introduce in neutral territory like normal, or something else?

Here's the grumpy girl herself in Sugar's tank:

by CinnamonPearl Sun 04 Mar 2018, 11:01 pm

I believe you want to put the bully into the other mice's territory! Hence, a dirty tank. Just plop her right in. But hopefully Scaredy will come and confirm that.

by scaredymouse Mon 05 Mar 2018, 9:03 am

Yep, plop her in the dirty tank. You want her to feel like an outsider. Since this is a special situation, this strategy should work for you. Blossom will be fine.

by AnonymousMouseOwner Wed 07 Mar 2018, 11:04 pm

Had to share this photo I got of Blossom in her "timeout" cage Laughing

And also, Sugar is very happy!

by Peachy Thu 08 Mar 2018, 6:37 pm

Teehee. Poor ol' Blossom is so cute.

Watch the others carefully when you replace her. I've done the same, but there are still risks to plopping an outsider into a tank. When I put one of my big brindle sisters back in after a time out, her sister was picking on her relentlessly until I pulled them out for a mini bonding session. Then everything was fine again. lol Mice can be exhausting. Shake head

by AnonymousMouseOwner Fri 09 Mar 2018, 9:20 pm

Thank you for the advice, Peachy! I will keep an eye on them. Autumn and Amber generally aren't aggressive towards other mice though, so I wouldn't expect them to bully Blossom, but mice are unpredictable so it's definitely possible!

I'm going to be away from home all day Sunday, which would be one week from the day I separated Blossom out, so I might have to do it a day early and put her in tomorrow instead.

Anyways, Autumn, Sugar, and Amber are doing well together! They had a little squabble over toilet paper today though... Laughing

Other than that, I've seen no fighting!

by AnonymousMouseOwner Sat 10 Mar 2018, 7:42 pm

Well, I went ahead and put her in, and watched them for 20 minutes. All seemed to go very well. I think she really felt like an outsider. She was wandering around, sniffing everything, looking a little lost lol. She encountered Sugar and they just exchanged a sniff with squinty eyes and ignored each other for the rest of the time. I'll keep an eye on them, but so far this method seems to have worked!

by Rodents rock! Sat 10 Mar 2018, 8:08 pm

So happy to hear things are going well, that is great news! Bouncy

by scaredymouse Sun 11 Mar 2018, 4:56 pm

Excellent! I try not to advertise this method... because you really kinda need to know your mouses personalities for it to work. But I know you have some experience and you know your mice. I'm glad it's working out. It works best when you have a good colony with only one really bratty mouse.

Let us know how things go!

by AnonymousMouseOwner Mon 12 Mar 2018, 12:35 am

scaredymouse wrote:Excellent! I try not to advertise this method... because you really kinda need to know your mouses personalities for it to work. But I know you have some experience and you know your mice. I'm glad it's working out. It works best when you have a good colony with only one really bratty mouse.

Let us know how things go!

I see, yes I definitely do know their personalities! I can spend hours watching them sometimes Smile