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Post by River Mon 15 Feb 2021, 1:37 pm

Weirdly enough, after reading about it on a German forum I'm in, I actually did find a breeder who sells already neutered males. They're a vet tech so their clinic will do it for them, but not for non-employees. 

I have mixed feelings on this! On one hand, most people in the US don't group neutered males. On the other hand, they're all well-bred and it's not uncommon to put uncastrated bucks with neutered ones in other countries. They see it as preferable to ASFs over there and say it usually goes very well.

I don't know! What do you guys think about this?

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Post by M O U S E Thu 18 Feb 2021, 10:57 am

I suppose if it goes well for them then it's fine, but I personally wouldn't risk housing males, whether neutered or not together. However the Youtube channel CreekValleyCritters neuters her males after they are retired from breeding and houses them with females.

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Post by River Thu 18 Feb 2021, 8:46 pm

I have spoken to her! She's in a FB group I'm in, such a lovely person.

I've learned from speaking to rescues / breeders that have done it that there's still a risk even if smaller, and it's more like housing with ASFs than other fancies. Better if introduced young, and it depends largely on the individual. How interesting. I doubt a breeder would be willing to work with me to find him a good 'match' but it was a cool idea. Laughing

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Post by chiroptera Sat 20 Feb 2021, 3:37 pm

I think it's important to also remember that they've been breeding mice longer oversees, so the males there might in fact be more docile and less territorial. 

It's too much of a risk that I would ever try it, but I do think that it's possible to safely house males together even here - just that it would require a lot more monitoring than the average person can reasonably provide, and thus is functionally (but not technically) impossible. 

I'm rambling now, but yeah. I think if it works overseas without bloodshed, that's great - and I don't think it's necessarily fair to give a snap judgment - but I think it's too much of a risk here, at least for me and for now.

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Post by River Sat 20 Feb 2021, 7:51 pm

I agree! I've been doing my research on how they minimize fighting in lab settings and trying to see how that's applied in a pet home. It's definitely a job for an experienced owner, if it's done at all. A lot of little things you wouldn't think about need to be doubled (true for ASFs as well from what I hear, if anyone is reading this to research) and leaving used bedding when you cage clean is controversial. They can even get territorial over nest boxes, so some labs just offer big piles of toilet paper.  Laughing  Hard to tell if that's about only one or multiple though, since labs don't really...try things. Weirdly enough.

When it comes to neuters, even they can only be introduced 12 weeks after the neuter. Ideally six months, they say!

I'd consider it only because both breeders breed less territorial males who could be group housed and I'm home bound most of the time, and will be so for at least another year.  Even then, though, I'm not quite convinced... I think intros would take a month or more just to be on the safe side. Laughing

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Post by M O U S E Wed 24 Feb 2021, 6:57 pm

This was posted by Emiology earlier today... perfect timing lol!

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Post by River Wed 24 Feb 2021, 9:41 pm

I saw that! It was a lovely video. I agree with everything that was said. (Though Mr. Bald is not neutered as that wasn't accessible for him, I do agree they all should be if possible...and if not possible, consider some other options, for sure.)


I've been lucky enough to connect with several people who have done what I asked about here. It's what I've mostly decided to go forward with, now that I know the breeder better. Much more expensive, but I had a few reasons why I thought it was preferable to ASFs (for me) and why I believe it to be a risk worth taking. I'll make a more in-depth post later on about it and all the precautions taken (there are many!), but all in all it's a 'do as I say not as I do' situation. Not my first choice, but what I felt was the only option for a buck who was not coping well with being a bachelor.

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Post by chiroptera Thu 25 Feb 2021, 3:55 am

As much as I love Emiology, I don't think I'd recommend trying to introduce males together AND females. I'd be worried that having females in the mix might give the males a reason to be more territorial?

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Post by River Thu 25 Feb 2021, 12:27 pm

It's unlikely from what I've seen, but not impossible. Since they're neutered, they don't (generally) have the breeding drive or a reason to be competitive -- they're essentially like young mice, who haven't developed the hormones to want to fight yet. 

Or...ideally, anyway. In countries where this set-up is common, they recommend you wait a minimum of 12 weeks to introduce neutered males together so they can balance out (depending on the age when castrated), sometimes longer. Some, especially those neutered old, just never settle down the same way. Since they'd have the most experience there, I'm inclined to believe she probably should have waited a bit more. 

Most people everywhere say there's still a chance of fertility up until 3-4 weeks post-neuter! Of course, I wish her the best. It's an interesting video but it does show that you should always do your own research, even if it's someone you trust. I'm looking forward to seeing the updates nonetheless.

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