Help understanding ivermectin dosage?

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Re: Help understanding ivermectin dosage?

Post by scaredymouse on Fri 15 Jul 2016, 6:24 pm

excellent. I've been using it on my new foster mouse and he has been very forgiving. he does not enjoy being held at all but seems to do okay if I let him run around on me. so I just chase him around with the syringe waiting for the perfect time to drop a drop on him and give him a quick smear. i'm sure it was funny to watch.

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Re: Help understanding ivermectin dosage?

Post by River on Fri 15 Jul 2016, 6:32 pm

They had such a nice time in the bedding they didn't groom it at all - that I've noticed - until just now. However it expands so much that they've got about 4-5 inches of bedding...the bag was not lying. It looks like a ridiculous amount but they're having a blast.

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Re: Help understanding ivermectin dosage?

Post by Brynne on Sat 16 Jul 2016, 5:34 am

An eye dropper or a syringe is easy to use. You can load it with barely more than a drop so that just one drop is dispensed.

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Re: Help understanding ivermectin dosage?

Post by River on Sat 16 Jul 2016, 10:23 am

I used a syringe, but I guess it didn't work rights! I should've tested it on water beforehand, really. I've got a spare that works great.

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Re: Help understanding ivermectin dosage?

Post by Rodents rock! on Sat 16 Jul 2016, 12:54 pm

I have a question, do you guys think that is a treatment that should be done to all mice even if you don think or know if they have mites/lice? Mickey is my first mouse. He scratches some, but I don't consider it obsessive. I look at his fur and don't see anything on him. But I remember seeing some post on here a while back that said something about most petshop mice have mites/lice. Is this correct? Should all mice be treated as a preventative?
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Re: Help understanding ivermectin dosage?

Post by CallaLily on Sat 16 Jul 2016, 3:53 pm

@scaredymouse wrote:No spraying the mouse!  It's too easy to get it in the eyes or nose.  

I agree.  Spraying always seemed risky to me too, so I choose to dose with a syringe. I was only passing on the info found on the ivermectin page. If it's wrong or outdated, perhaps it should be edited.

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Re: Help understanding ivermectin dosage?

Post by CinnamonPearl on Sat 16 Jul 2016, 3:56 pm

I definitely think we should edit the ivermectin page. I'm pretty sure the brand it recommends was discontinued, so it should be updated for that too.

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Re: Help understanding ivermectin dosage?

Post by MouseLover on Sat 16 Jul 2016, 4:01 pm

Rodents rock - yes, a large proportion of pet shop mice will have some form of parasite, be that mites, lice, or little pin worms. In small amounts these things will cause no/few symptoms, so we only tend to notice they're there when there's a bad infestation. But it's much better if it doesn't ever get to that point, so you may just want to treat him anyway. It won't cause Mickey any harm to be treated if he doesn't actually have them, but it could prevent a bad infestation if he does.

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Re: Help understanding ivermectin dosage?

Post by Peachy on Sat 16 Jul 2016, 4:28 pm

Scaredy is already working on rewriting that page. Smile

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Re: Help understanding ivermectin dosage?

Post by CallaLily on Sat 16 Jul 2016, 4:37 pm

abeona wrote:Scaredy is already working on rewriting that page. Smile

Awesome! Thank you, Scaredy. Smile

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Re: Help understanding ivermectin dosage?

Post by River on Sat 16 Jul 2016, 4:52 pm

I would agree with Cinna; go ahead and treat him! Mine didn't develop a really bad infestation before I noticed. They never broke any skin, anyways. They did groom a lot though, and it was enough that I once actually saw what I assume was a louse in her fur. Thankfully, it didn't get horrendously bad beforehand, but they were certainly uncomfortable + scratching too much.

EDIT: Exactly how old was TFM? Like, when was the Ivermectin page written?

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Re: Help understanding ivermectin dosage?

Post by Peachy on Sat 16 Jul 2016, 5:24 pm

TFM started in 2006, but I have no idea when the pages were written. Probably around the same time?

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Re: Help understanding ivermectin dosage?

Post by CallaLily on Sat 16 Jul 2016, 8:46 pm

I don't know when either but here's where the info came from:

BarbaraFunMouse wrote:
A Note 
Sooner or later, most- if not all mouseries will have a parasite infestation. Even when taking all precautionary measures possible, parasites find their way in. Whether it's thru wild mice getting in homes, new mice coming into the mousery (even with a QT period), on bedding, on hay, on toys bought from the store, etc. I was lucky enough to go about 10 years before it happened to my mice. Much of this luck is because I used precautions such as freezing things before using them, QT'ing mice, etc. However, much of it was pure luck also. Getting a parasite is nothing to be ashamed of as long as you are honest about it, close down your mousery (no one in or out), treat aggressively, etc. If you don't do these things, THEN there IS something to be ashamed of. 

What I write below are my experiences with lice. Do note that at the time, oral treatment was the only thing heard of among mouse communities and among vets. I consulted a vet the moment I found the lice. We started with oral treatment and not topical because successful topical treatment was unheard of in these communities at the time. Now we know better. I hope that these experiences I share with you will help save lives and educate mouse "parents" as well as vets who don't know about other forms of treatment.

In the beginning. 
Mild infestation was found on my new mice in QT. These mice were QT'ed on the bottom floor of the house and my mousery was on the next floor up, in their own room. I always washed my hands (up to my elbows) after holding infested mice and before touching the mice in my mousery (my original mice). I only touched the infested mice at night, before a shower and then I would go to bed. During the days I would touch the mice in my mousery that were not infested. Even with these precautions, the lice still made it to my mousery and infested all of my mice. Contrary to all other sites out there, lice CAN climb out of tanks, up walls and shelves, etc. Lice were found on my original mice within a week after the infested mice came in. While I understand that "proper QT" is to take place out side of the home, I find that this does just as much harm as QT'ing in home. The mice can be exposed to many things while in an off site QT just as well as they can anywhere else. Even if you practice off-site QT, you must still QT for 2-3 weeks in your home because all mice coming from out side the home (no matter where they are from) must be QT'ed in your home and under your care.

At the time of the initial infestation I had 1-2 week old babies in my mousery. Oral treatment can NOT be administered to baby mice. Because of this, I waited until the babies were 4 weeks old before treating anyone. There is no point in treating part of the mice in your home because it will be a never ending cycle of re infestation. All mice must be treated at the same time in order to have success. By the time the babies were old enough, all mice were infested mild to heavy.

Treatment and Results.

Week 1
Oral Ivermectin obtained thru vet (1% Ivermectin).
All cages cleaned and striped of any wood, cardboard, etc. None of these things were placed back with the mice until after mice were clear of lice and nits (the things originally removed were thrown out and new was acquired at a later date. All that remained was: their tank, mesh lid, food dish, water bottle, wheel, and plastic house (and the mice/mouse of course).
All mice treated with oral Ivermectin on this day.
Lice status: semi-heavy infestation. 
No ill side effects found this week.

Week 2
All cages and everything inside bleached (with the exception of the mice of course!). 
Oral Ivermectin administered as the week before.
Lice status: Heavy infestation. 
By the middle of week 2, ill affects were seen in 6 of around 120 mice. These included:
Neurological disorders (loss of balance, disorientation, bleeding from the ear, etc). The mice affected were all adults yet not elderly. 

Week 3
All cages and everything inside bleached (with the exception of the mice of course!).
Oral Ivermectin was NOT administered because of the ill side affects seen in the previous week.
Lice status: Heavy infestation. Oral treatment not appearing to make any impact at all. 
Ill side affects were still seen in the same 6 mice as before. This week, 5 of the 6 mice were lost (death). The one that didn't die had bleeding from the ear but no other signs of neurological disorders. This mouse still gets bleeding from the ear/ear infections from time to time that is solely contributed to the oral ivermectin treatment. 

Week 4
No treatments administered this week. Cage cleaning as normal (no bleach, just soap and water). 
Lice status: Heavy infestation. However, it appears that the previous treatments did help but slightly. It seems to have been delayed (making sense because of the life cycle of the lice).
No ill affects found this week.

Week 5 
Topical treatment found online from laboratory tests. Thru these findings, a different treatment was administered. 
Iver-on TM containing 5mg Ivermectin was diluted in water to consist of 1/6th Iver-on (1 part Iver-on and 5 parts water). Solution was put in a spray bottle to be administered.
Bedding was lightly sprayed. Tank mesh lid was generously sprayed. Cage cleaning proceeded as normal (NO bleaching, just soap and water). The back/hindquarters area of each mouse was sprayed (one full spray) with the same solution, being extremely careful that over spray didn't get by the eyes of the mouse. This made the mouses back wet but not dripping. No other part of the mouse was sprayed except the back/hindquarters. 
Lice status: Heavy infestation.
No ill affects found this week.

Week 6 
Topical Ivermectin administered as last week. 
Cage cleaning the same also.
Lice status: still present but MUCH less than last week. Before the end of this week, infestation was 98% gone (this includes lice as well as nits).
No ill affects found this week.

Week 7 
Topical Ivermectin administered as last week. 
Cage cleaning the same also.
Lice status: completely gone. 
Ill affects found. One mouse appears to have gotten light over spray of the diluted Iver-on in the eye (this is why it is SO important that you shield the eyes as best as you can. This mouse wiggled out of the towel covering the eye, just as I sprayed). Eye appears irritated but no discharge. Eye cleaned with warm water and cloth daily. The eye got better as days went on. 

Week 8 
Topical Ivermectin administered as last week. This was a precautionary measure only. I don't feel it was necessary but I wanted to be safe before opening my mousery again. 
Cage cleaning the same also.
Lice status: Lice still completely gone.
No ill affects found this week.

Under normal circumstances, it is recommended to treat mice topically every 7 days for 3 weeks. Take a 2 week break without treatment. Then treat topically again every 7 days for another 3 weeks to eliminate all lice and nits.

http://thefunmouse.com/info/lice.cfm

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Re: Help understanding ivermectin dosage?

Post by Rodents rock! on Sat 16 Jul 2016, 11:58 pm

@MouseLover wrote:Rodents rock - yes, a large proportion of pet shop mice will have some form of parasite, be that mites, lice, or little pin worms. In small amounts these things will cause no/few symptoms, so we only tend to notice they're there when there's a bad infestation. But it's much better if it doesn't ever get to that point, so you may just want to treat him anyway. It won't cause Mickey any harm to be treated if he doesn't actually have them, but it could prevent a bad infestation if he does.
Thank you MouseLover, I will go ahead and get some of that medicine for treatment. Can I just put a bit on my finger and rub it on his back?  Also, how many treatments should I do?
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Re: Help understanding ivermectin dosage?

Post by Rodents rock! on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 12:10 am

ThePetekeyPrep wrote:I would agree with Cinna; go ahead and treat him! Mine didn't develop a really bad infestation before I noticed. They never broke any skin, anyways. They did groom a lot though, and it was enough that I once actually saw what I assume was a louse in her fur. Thankfully, it didn't get horrendously bad beforehand, but they were certainly uncomfortable + scratching too much.

EDIT: Exactly how old was TFM? Like, when was the Ivermectin page written?

Thank you.
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